Rose on men and women

Another lady (Rose) has offered her thoughts on men and women and their relations. Here is what she wrote (I thought some of this was pretty fascinating):

“I think that the one thing that men and women are forgetting about each other is that we’re all humans – flawed, original sin, hopes and dreams and all. The more time we spend “othering” each other, the more easily we are tempted into fear. Fear leads to anger and anger to hatred. I like men. You’re good company.

As we are different, the things we fear about one another are different, and I think those fears are the least understood things.

And men don’t understand the fears that women have about men, and the fears that feminism encourages us to have – or slap a coat of bravado over, which is just fear in a mask. You have no idea how physically weak we are, or how almost none of us have the faintest clue how to deal with physical unpleasantness. Feminism feeds these fears, emphasizing the scary stuff without teaching us how to handle ourselves with a modicum of intelligence. So we vacillate between stupid bravado and unreasoning fear. It’s not your fault that you’re bigger and stronger! What you *do* is not what you *could* do… what other men, in other cultures, do or have done. The knowledge that you could choose to harm/kill us – especially for those of us who have never been so much as slapped – is a terrifying unknown. (Note below).

I don’t think men understand how important consensus/community is to women. I don’t think men understand how upsetting open conflict is to us.

I think women are very dishonest about the amount of manipulation that is involved with our lives – manipulation that we put out, that we are subject to. We’re dishonest with ourselves about that too, and of course honesty has to start within. We’ve swallowed the lie that value is found in being as masculine as possible – even for the most feminine… if she’s not providing, if she’s not “cool”, and “tough”… she’s lower-status. I don’t think most women set out to lie to men – but we’re very good at convincing you of the lies we’ve accepted about ourselves. People who lie INTENTIONALLY should be avoided on principle. Women have internalized so many lies, it’s not even funny. We really think what should be, is what can be, if we wish hard enough.

Difference in power trips – when I was 16, one of my male friends had put on about 50lb of muscle and 8 inches of height over the summer. About the same age, I’d gone from fat to stacked. The joy he took in picking up everyone he could grab was the same sort of wonder I took in watching the boy’s brains drain out of their ears when I leaned over in a low-cut shirt. Power is power, and it corrupts.

I am a complementarian. I love how my husband and I work together to do life. He’s the boss, and God bless him, I don’t want the job. (I’m still under Eve’s curse – but he’s more than man enough to smack me on the nose, usually without noticing). [[I asked Rose about this and she explained “Obviously not literal. He could snap my head from my neck if he wanted to. A well-chosen word or glare is more than enough.”]]

His strengths and mine complement each other, and we’re at our best when we’re working towards the same goal, covering one another, looking out for one another, doing what we’re best at. It’s beautiful, how God made us male and female. I love being my best, under his authority, while he’s at his best. I have an almost aesthetic appreciation for the beauty of our relationship when we’re doing what we ought. I think marriage is meant to be complementarian – the tasks might get divvied up differently than they are in my house, but the way man and wife work hand-in-hand… it’s just so darn good.

God’s purposes are beautiful.

(Note – One of the things that seems to have changed since I was in college – back in the day all of us were taught some rudimentary attack-avoidance tools. Don’t take drinks from strangers, keep your keys in your hand when you’re walking to the car, walk briskly and with purpose, etc. Now women are just supposed to say our bodies aren’t commodities? That’s ridiculous. A commodity is anything someone is willing to pay for. I hear ISIS considers me worth about $50 on the open market… and therefore, I am a commodity. I don’t have to like that to be willing to deal with the reality appropriately).

(Anecdote: I was walking in Tijuana once with a platonic male friend and two other girls. The whistles, leers, and general scary vibe had all of us glued onto him for protection—- a 15yo gay guy did the trick.)”

I think that is a very helpful contribution from Rose. If any men have questions (or indeed women), just put a note in the comments here. And I always like interviewing women on these matters, so volunteer if you are interested. It can all be done online.


12 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Anon on December 9, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    I’d like to learn a more detailed breakdown, using Rose’s marriage as the model, of a healthy complementary masculine-feminine relationship.

    Also, she criticized the cultural masculinization of women. What is Rose’s view, as a woman and complementarian, on the cultural feminization of men?


  2. I’ve been trying to think of a nice way to put this, but I’m not having much luck. So, forgive me if I am too frank. This post seems to me to be something like a 1950s caricature of women. Women are not afraid of men – if anything, they should fear them more – and they are mostly oblivious to their physical inferiority. This is why women push to enter professions such as the army and fire brigade and are somewhat shocked to find that they (for the most part) can’t hack it. We are brought up believing that we can hold our own with men, and even when we do realise that we’ll never have the same upper body strength (by playing sport against them for example) we find other ways to compensate. None of this rings true for me.


    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 10, 2015 at 6:45 am

      Yes. Interesting. What I think it comes down to is the individual experience of the woman.

      Women, especially women who are say over about five and a half feet, tend not to realise their relative weakness. This is especially true if they have never seriously grappled with a man.

      I have had fun pointing out to people the – astonishing even to me – fact that only one in a thousand women has the upper body strength of the average man. Women, especially larger women, look stronger than they are because their female body fat fills them out.

      Here is the study on upper body strength:

      Costs and benefits of fat-free muscle mass in men: relationship to matingsuccess, dietary requirements, and native immunity

      “Men have about 90% greater upper-body strength, a difference of approximately three standard deviations (Abe et al., 2003; Lassek & Gaulin, 2009). The average man is stronger than 99.9% of women (Lassek & Gaulin, 2009).”


      • Yes, but I don’t think women’s physique has anything to do with it. If anything, my shorter friends tend to be more feisty and sporty (and prone to injury as a result). My taller friends and I tend to be more conscious of our physical weakness. Perhaps it’s because we have further to fall. 😉

      • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 10, 2015 at 7:27 am

        Maybe. I once “horsed around” with a couple of girls in college. We were just playing. The shorter girl was pretty weak, but the taller girl was even weaker.

    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 10, 2015 at 6:57 am

      Geoffrey Miller and Tucker Max wrote an interesting article on this issue, and made much play with the fear that women have of men. But I had my doubts.

      Here is the article.

      My wife is pretty strong, but she routinely gets me to open jars and the like. I am not sure though that she is fully aware of her relative physical capabilities. We certainly live in an age that portrays women as just as competent in all areas as men, including physically.

      We live in strange times. I was at a shopping centre recently,and I saw four images of men and women. One was a newspaper story about a “spike” expected in domestic violence in Canberra at Xmas, with reference to the cases of three women. The second image was of a girl growing up to be an astronaut. The third was of a man giving his wife a bear hug. The fourth was of a housewife selecting fruit.

      Mixed signals.


      • Mixed signals and all misleading images in one way or another. Our society is so deluged with images that we no longer recognise propaganda.

  3. Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 10, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    Rose has provided the following further comments:

    On the strength issue:

    I’m 5’2″ and my hubs is 6’4″. When I deadlifted 250lb and was like, “did you think I could do that?” he responded, “Sure, you’re a stout little thing!” -snort- You should see what the men lift….

    On the feminisation issue and complementary marital roles:

    I don’t have a tremendous amount to say about the feminization of men in our society. I am in my early 40s, and I was born and raised in a military town, so the hipster phenomenon is, frankly, a bit baffling. What I can say is that the expectations surrounding pairing off are damaging everyone. Instead of valuing marriage as a life-long partnership, finding someone who suits you, who wants to go with you to the ends of the earth, you’re supposed to find someone who fulfills your deepest longings and is simultaneously not clingy. -shakes head- Does. Not. Compute. This insanity leads everyone to lie to themselves and act out of desperation. Desperation is not attractive.

    Sometimes I feel like, when asked this sort of question, people are asking for a formula. There isn’t one. Masculinity doesn’t have to look like my husband – although he is extremely masculine. Competence, confidence, and passion are important. My father is just as competent, confident, and passionate… and he’s as different from my husband as possible. (The academic vs. the man-who-fixes-things). My son is more like my father than he is my husband, and I am watching him build inner confidence and the masculinity that goes with it, and I’m enjoying watching that process.

    It’s very much similar insofar as marriage is concerned. It’s not the outside that’s important, it’s the inside. My husband and I are on the same team, we’re working for mutual goals. He’s in charge, and I give him my counsel – if he wanted a woman who didn’t have a brain, there was an assortment he could have chosen from. So, I’ve read that I’m not “supposed” to pay the bills. Um, k. Y’all come tell him that, because that’s my *job*. Why is it my job? I’m better at paperwork. It really doesn’t matter how you divvy up the tasks, what matters is that you are working together for goals that you are both on board with – and that you, as the husband, are the one steering the ship.

    There is an old quote from a daughter to her father that I think is apt here, which I will paraphrase. The father asked the daughter what sort of background her beau came from, and this was her response, “I don’t know where he came from – but I know where he’s going, and I want to go with him.” THAT is the essence of complementarian marriage. “I want to go with him”. I want to follow his lead, I trust him, I give him my loyalty, I’m on his team.


    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 10, 2015 at 9:28 pm

      I agree about the “who does what?” issue. My wife and I mostly follow traditional roles as to tasks, but there are areas of cross-over. My wife is more car-minded for example. I am probably the softer parent at times.

      It is a matter of personalities.

      That said, I think most people would say I am a fairly dominant husband.


  4. Posted by rich on January 6, 2016 at 11:37 pm

    I’ve really enjoyed these female guest speakers. Thank you for putting in the effort to make them available.


    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on January 7, 2016 at 12:25 am

      Thanks. It is difficult to understand the opposite sex.

      One has insight from one’s shared humanity; and from imaginative empathy; and from observation. I think there are certain “natural experiments” one can run on the women one knows, and there are certain “Red Pill” insights that I think are genuine advances for men in understanding women. And then there is traditional wisdom.

      But there is nothing like asking the women themselves. Some women will be pretty honest, especially if there is some anonymity. Of course, they have to have insight into themselves, and not all women have that.

      I am always interested in interviewing other women in a similar way. Volunteers are welcome.


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