Can we stop pretending?

Lizzy Finnegan makes a brave attempt to claim the classic image of Princess Leia as a slavegirl as a feminist icon (against the feminists who detest the image):

Slave Leia Is the Hero Feminists Need, But Do Not Deserve

Apparently there is a move by Disney to downplay this image in the future. But this is as pointless as would be an attempt to ban Botticelli’s Birth of Venus. The image is popular because it is powerful and men (and women) find it intriguing.


(There is another iconic poster from the Seventies which feminists have fitfully attempted to ban. However, “the Internet is forever”, and it is even on Wikipedia. I won’t post it. You have probably seen it.)

In any case, in respect of Leia in her slave costume, I recently tweeted:

“An interesting argument, but I doubt that the nerd with her picture on his bedroom wall is celebrating her feminism.”

Why can’t we stop pretending? The image has never particularly appealed to me personally. But many younger men would find the image sexy because it shows a lovely woman reduced to submission (and a lot of women would secretly find it sexy – you can’t tell me that women cosplay this to express their feminist instincts). And feminists hate it because they don’t like anything that pleases men, and know damn well that no-one wants pictures of them dressed as slavegirls.

Can We Stop Pretending?



13 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Jim on December 1, 2015 at 8:46 am

    Slave Leia is damned sexy. And yeah, who are they kidding? This a feminist icon? Uh huh.

    “And feminists hate it because they don’t like anything that pleases men”

    We noticed. 🙂

    BTW, some of my posts are still not getting though. Have any idea what’s going on Julian?


    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 1, 2015 at 9:11 am

      For some reason, several of your comments went to the spam folder. I have pulled them out. They may have been a bit short. Comments that are short or contain URLs seem to get caught in the filter.

      As has been pointed out in the past, people don’t care much what a picture or phrase or song REALLY meant in context. They adopt it because they like it. Nobody cares what happened to Leia after her appearance in that costume. Nobody cares if she was a kickass babe and freed herself from Jabba’s clutches. They just think she looks “hot” forced to dress as a slavegirl.

      This happens a lot. I read an article on the phenomenon in somewhere like National Review. Audiences adopt memes they like and give them their own meaning. As I have pointed out myself, the famous retort “This. Is. Sparta.” is actually a feminist response in the movie. But that is not the reason people like it and quote it.

      (As I said, I don’t go much on the slavegirl thing, but you show me a heterosexual man who claims not to find that picture even a little bit sexy, and I will show you a liar.)


  2. Posted by Anonymous Reader on December 1, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    Can We Stop Pretending?

    Who’s “we”, eh?

    Feminists won’t give up their blank slate delusion easily. I suspect those over 30 won’t give it up at all. The notion that men and women are exactly the same except for plumbing issues, that men and women have the same needs, desires and capabilities is a fundamental premise of feminism – abandon that and feminism collapses.

    So, no, some people can’t stop pretending. The pretense is foundational to their worldview, just as much as giving Barbie dolls to boys and toy trucks to girls in the expectation that this will somehow change the children to androgyny. Even though the same feminists are intrigued by Slave Leia, and secretly would like to be controlled in that manner, but only by a man they find attractive.

    It’s funny, Nancy Friday wrote My Secret Garden about the same time that Susan Brownmiller’s tract Men, Women and Rape was published. Time has shown us that Friday accurately reports women’s fantasies, and that Brownmiller’s political power grab has only increased in greed. In What Do Women Want by Berger science shows that Friday was right. I’ve not finished the book yet, but it is very realistic towards women. One telling quote: a woman reported in a confidential interview that she was frustrated by her husband, who was kind, sweet, loving, gentle in bed – not what she wanted or needed at all. She said something like “I guess all that no means no teaching he got from mid school on affected him”.

    The “yes means yes (until it doesn’t) brainwashing on college campuses in the US will only make things worse – more young men will become even more tentative around women, with the result that more young women will become frustrated even after marriage. All because “we” can’t stop pretending…


    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 1, 2015 at 8:39 pm

      Well, yes. I will add one thing. I find that there is no tweet, no matter how antifeminist, or even post here along the same lines, that does not attract approval from some women at least.

      We do not hear from a large proportion of women who are clearly not feminists, and who clearly prefer “tough love” from men.


      • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 1, 2015 at 11:35 pm

        I shall just put this here, as they say. I have posted this before and had complaints about it, so fair warning. It sounds genuine, but who knows these days?

        Just fucking fuck me, already.

        (Actually, on rereading that, there are things I don’t agree with. In particular, her self-described feminism is still there, despite her basic advice. There is some “topping from the bottom” going on. Still, she does write this:

        Most women like to be fucked, and fucked well. Yes, there are women out there who want to “make love” every time – sweet, gentle, rocking love with lots of eye contact and loving kisses. Those women are not the majority. The majority like to be pounded. The majority like to have their hair pulled. The majority like a good, solid jackhammering. When a woman is bucking wildly against you, it’s not because she wants you to pull back and slowly swirl your cock around her vagina like you’re mixing a cake batter up there. It’s because she wants you to hold down her arms, or grab her hips, or push her legs above her head, and fuck her harder. Don’t be too afraid of what this means as far as gender equality goes – I am a raging feminist bitch, but I still want to be penetrated like you are planning on fucking my throat from the inside out.“)

      • Posted by Jim on December 2, 2015 at 4:35 am

        “I am a raging feminist bitch, but I still want to be penetrated like you are planning on fucking my throat from the inside out.“

        Oh the cognitive dissonance. I laugh every time I see this kind of thing! This bitch will never be at peace inside. She’s trying to obey both her loins and her feminist brainwashed little head at the same time.

      • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 2, 2015 at 5:17 am

        Notice, too, how she lays down rules for what he can’t expect without reciprocation. That’s what I meant by “topping from the bottom”.

        You can’t really say to a man – “do whatever you like – unless I don’t like it“. But even women who claim they want to be dominated will sometimes say they don’t want “domineering behaviour”. Which just means they still want the final say.

        This is NOT to say that a man should be allowed to rape a woman. What I mean is that, once he has her consent, she should not be micromanaging him.

        I wrote about this kind of thing here:

        Boys will be Boys

    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 2, 2015 at 3:06 am

      The “pretending” I was referring to is not just feminists pretending. We all know they pretend. It is notorious. I also meant the way in which anti-feminists try to “out-feminist” them, as this woman writer (Lizzy Finnegan) does in her defence of the image of Leia as slavegirl.

      My response to arguments that the sequence with Leia as slavegirl really sends a feminist message is, who cares? Why must everything “send a feminist message”?

      As I asked here, so what if a film has an anti-feminist message? That doesn’t mean it is a bad film:

      The Sexual Politics of Blade Runner


  3. Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 2, 2015 at 4:02 am

    More feminist complaints about Star Wars:


  4. Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 2, 2015 at 4:06 am

    And quite a good article on attempts to “correct” the male gaze, which I suspect will remain stubbornly incorrigible:

    The Tyranny of Biomechanics


  5. Posted by pb on December 2, 2015 at 7:06 am

    Any hints on what that iconic poster from the 70s would be?


    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 2, 2015 at 7:41 am

      pb, believe it or not, I actually try to keep this blog as “clean” as possible. I don’t always succeed, but normally I try to only put pictures up to illustrate a point.

      It is highly likely you have seen the poster I had in mind anyway.


  6. Posted by Julian O'Dea on December 6, 2015 at 3:15 am

    More on the current attempts to “politically correct” this series:

    There are a few movie releases at which one realises, at once, “here is something truly new and exciting”. The first Star Wars movie was one such time for me, as I recall. The next couple seemed OK, but I didn’t even bother with the later films (Sith lords, whatever they are). I just had an instinct that they were ruining it.

    In my opinion, the Ghostbusters sequel managed to survive after they added the black ghostbuster because he was an interesting character who added something to the mix other than PC. I have no idea how the projected all-female remake will go. I won’t be rushing to watch it.

    As some of the commenters remark at the above site, this kind of thing is feminist entryism – feminists wanting to jump on an existing, successful franchise and take their cut.


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