Why I think he is Bruce not Caitlyn

According to this site:

“Let’s eliminate any confusion from the beginning: Caitlyn has not had any genital surgery (yet). However, on March 15, she did head to a surgical center in Beverly Hills to take the final steps in her transformation — facial-feminization surgery, as well as a procedure to augment her breasts. This surgery comes after previous work done on her nose, as well as the infamous tracheal shave in January 2014.”

So it seems that Bruce/Caitlyn still has his y chromosomes of course, in the cells of his body, and he still has his penis. He has had some surgery to make him look and sound more like a woman. There is no mention of hormonal treatment.

He may have a neurological condition that makes him feel like a woman mentally. That is quite possible, and he has my sympathy in that respect. But biologically, he remains basically a man.

As I have commented a few times, I don’t think he makes a very convincing transsexual. In some photos he looks OK, but in others his masculine legs, for example, give him away. Men with long faces tend not to make convincing “women”, as far as I can tell. (I won’t link to him, but there is a cross-dresser on the Internet who has a long-running blog, and who simply never looks convincing for this reason.)

Some transsexuals look very feminine indeed. I assume there is some hormonal regimen in place, and maybe they get started when they are relatively young. I have commented before that some transsexuals can look pretty good, as with this case.

I don’t think “Caitlyn” Jenner is even in “her” class in that regard.

In other transgender news, there is this story. Apparently, women who transition to “men” while at the college will be allowed to stay because all the “oppression” they experienced growing up female means that coming out as a “male” does not mean they are automatically privileged.

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8 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Julian O'Dea on June 5, 2015 at 4:07 am

    http://rightwingnews.com/health/former-johns-hopkins-chief-of-psychiatry-being-transgender-is-a-mental-disorder-and-biologically-impossible/?utm_source=youngcons&utm_medium=youngcons&utm_campaign=youngcons

    As far as I know, it is not possible to produce a functioning penis for a woman wanting to become a “man”. And it is certainly not yet possible for a man to acquire a womb or other structure that would allow him to bear a child.

    One day maybe.

    I understand that the consensus is that the default phenotypic appearance in humans is female. A y chromosome normally means a person looks male, although there are some cases of genetic males who look female because the cells in their bodies do not respond normally to male hormones. There is a rumour that Jamie Lee Curtis is one such case, perhaps because of her remarkable figure, but this is probably not true (it would be easy to check – just get a sample of her saliva from a glass and test for y chromosomes).

    It would be very rare if not impossible for a person with female chromosomes to look male. (I have sometimes speculated about what such a case would mean for a person who wanted to be a Catholic priest or an Orthodox rabbi.) Perhaps this case of a human sexual mosaic comes close:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1399-0004.1979.tb02032.x/abstract;jsessionid=7B2C429DD2E1F2B966CFD25625E9A0E5.f01t03

    Reply

  2. Transexuality is strange; you may recall the story told by a blogger in the past decade who found himself changing unexpectedly into a woman. He – or, if you like, she (does the pronoun actually matter that much?) – rationalised this by saying the only explanation she could come up with was her body was responding to a “long-felt need”. I recall reading a story in Montaigne about a similarly spontaneous transition.

    So for accounts like this, well, that experience sounds a little odd, perhaps frightening, perhaps desirable, perhaps (for certain people) all rather fun.

    But in some cases I actually find myself siding with the Germaine Greers, the cranky old curmudgeons of the feminist movement: so a guy gets an extreme makeover and has a photo shoot to prove he’s actually a she. Wait, what? Is this what being female comes down to? A sexy photo shoot on a front page? And presumably being male can be summarised in a similar fatuous cliche (standing about in your underwear on a mountain, perhaps?)

    Reply

    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on June 5, 2015 at 4:57 am

      Yes, I do remember a case of a conservative Australian (IIRC) blogger who suddenly became a woman, so to speak.

      The whole area is complicated. Even in terms of pure biology. (I have a fat book upstairs with all the various intersex and other syndromes). There is also a group of boys somewhere in Sth America I think (I should check later) who start out as girls but become boys as they get older.

      As for transsexuals, Bruce/Caitlin is pretty mediocre by comparison with some “shemales” (not a favoured term apparently). Some of them are stunning (if one can forget about the penis in the panties). I am trying to make this a “nicer” blog, but I could link to a video of one such, doing everything a girl can do – nearly.

      Reply

  3. Posted by RichardP on June 5, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    There are some vigorous conversations on the internet about the distinction between definitions of gender and sex. I don’t know the debate well enough to present facts here. But I have had a question for a while: can we make a legitimate distinction between a “desire to be a woman” and a “desire to be treated as women are treated”?

    I think it is pretty obvious that no man can become a woman, biologically. But I think there is plenty of evidence that men can make certain changes that will allow them to be treated as a woman. So – the question becomes – what is going on inside of you that makes you want to be treated as a woman, even though you are a man?

    The Johns-Hopkins guy thinks it is a mental disorder. Perhaps. But can such thinking have a biological basis? I have a wife who, with her older sister, became thoroughly disgusted with their father as he aged. The older he got, the more weepy he became. The sister’s accusation – “he’s acting just like a woman”. Simpler explanation, of course, is that – as men age – testosterone production drops and progesterone production increases. The reverse is true for women. As men age, they get weepy and develp man-boobs. As women age, their voice tends to deepen and they get (more) facial hair and begin to act more manly and less feminine.

    This path to biological changes is probably as individual as we all are. And for some, the change has already occured by the time they are born (hermaphroditism; low testosterone production, etc.) What hormonal and cellular changes occur in the womb that turn a brain (physical structure) into either male or female? Given all of the genetic “accidents” that can happen as the fetus is formed, surely it is at least possible that a male fetus that is only marginally removed from being a hermaphrodite could end up with a brain that develops more toward the female than the male. And the reverse for the female fetus.

    People get all excited about transgender issues from a political or spiritual position and completely miss the fascinating complexity that goes on in the journey between a recently-fertilized egg and a 35-year-old human of either gender. So many chances for error to be introduced. And many times it is. And that gives rise to the immense diversity of types of humans (as well as animals).

    Now – whether one should act on what their accidental biology is calling them to, that discussion belongs to the spiritual and political arena. Biology concerns the “why”. The spiritual and political concerns what we should do with the results of the “why”. People often don’t understand that distinction.

    Reply

    • Posted by Julian O'Dea on June 6, 2015 at 2:51 am

      RichardP, thanks for that. It is indeed a fascinating and complex question. I discussed this with my wife a short while back, and she mentioned an Asperger’s boy she knows who now wants to become a girl, maybe because he has found acceptance in a group of cross-gender kids.

      Being a male is a riskier proposition and harder to “perform” than being a female. There is more that can go wrong. In fact, successfully impregnating a woman is beyond the skills of many men (there are data showing that only a minority of men reproduced in the past.)

      I think a lot of men think that becoming a woman is an easy way out. I imagine that a lot of the “unmanly slackers” around these days, reportedly, are simply making the rational decision not to “step up to the plate” and play a difficult male role that is quite likely to end in tears – for someone – these days.

      The paths to being a woman from being a man include cross-dressing (which is fairly common among heterosexual men), autogynephilia (being sexually aroused at the idea of becoming a woman) and a response to “gender dysphoria” (which I think is the conviction that one is not the sex one appears to be). One can add in cases of what seem to be a masochistic desire to play the female sexual role (sometimes sexually) in order to feel humiliated. Then there appear to be a proportion of passive homosexual “bottoms” who like to be as feminine as possible.

      Some of these types seem to want to have their genitals reassigned surgically. But many do not. Most transsexuals do not, apparently. And that has been my observation. Even very passive feminised men seem mostly to retain their penises.

      What puzzles me about Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is that he seems to be claiming he feels like a woman in a man’s body, but he has not yet had genital surgery. Perhaps he will eventually.

      Autogynephiliacs seem pretty keen to have their genitals made female and function sexually as women. But a lot of “shemales” retain their penises and have anal sex as “bottoms”.

      Reply

      • Posted by Julian O'Dea on June 6, 2015 at 2:56 am

        To answer the implied question, I think a lot of men believe that women get treated more kindly and with more forbearance than men, and maybe they want to be part of that.

        Masculinity and femininity consist of suites of physical and mental traits and external appearance is only a rough guide to mentality. Nevertheless it is the best guide we have, and in most cases it is correct. (I have probably walked past a few “women” over the years who were really crossdressers, for example, but not enough to make me mentally query every woman I see.)

  4. Posted by Julian O'Dea on June 17, 2015 at 5:33 am

    An uncharacteristically peevish article by Steve Sailer (it seems even his patience is wearing thin):

    http://takimag.com/article/the_flight_from_white_steve_sailer#axzz3dIKLmpUg

    Reply

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